Are you an entrepreneur idle after a lifetime in the wake of a lockdown?
Are you concerned about being unproductive in the midst of a crisis and the future of your business post-COVID19? It is true that the coronavirus pandemic has turned both our individual lives as well as the balance of the world upside down.
But instead of brooding over the what-may-have-been, you could make use of this time to efficiently plan the future of your business.
Taking the current situation into consideration, what we are in dire need right now is a sustainable policy for doing business. But why? How? Who better to answer all your questions than Kamal Prakash Seth, country head of the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO), India.
Seth is the founder of Human Circle, an organization that inspires individuals to be their best selves, and also a TEDx speaker. Tune in to learn a lot more about creating a sustainable business model with Kamal Seth
00:10 – Introduction.
00:48 – Business with a purpose.
02:24 – Three key questions of today’s podcast.
02:49 – Future-proofing your business.
07:54 – How to come up with a recession-proof business model
15:40 – Running your business in the post-COVID-19 world
16:56 – What to learn from this outbreak
18:28 – Qualities required for a successful sustainable entrepreneur
22:32 – How to adopt a sustainable lifestyle for an entrepreneur
37:16 – Which books entrepreneurs should read by Kamal
Special thanks to Kamal Prakash Seth for joining this amazing episode. This is incredibly advantageous if you have your own podcast to promote, since the audience is already listening to podcasts, meaning they’re much more likely to subscribe to your own podcast.
Kamal Prakash SethCOUNTRY HEAD AT RSPO
WWF Global Palm Oil Lead; Influencer for SDGs; Public Speaker
RK: Welcome my dear viewers for yet another podcast with Kamal Prakash Seth, he’s a great friend of mine. And I met him at the Awesomeness Fest Bali in 2014. It was conducted by Mindvalley ever since we have been very close.
He is the country head at RSPO (Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil) in India. RSPO is a voluntary sustainability standard for palm oil production and trade with over 4500 members, such as companies, NGOs and farmer groups in over 90 countries.
So today we are going to talk about businesses with purpose. Future-proofing your business in the post-COVID-19 world. Welcome, Kamal.
Kamal: Hi RK! Hi everyone. Great to be here.
RK: Thank you, Kamal. So let’s get started. You know, a lot of people are very worried, especially entrepreneurs are worried about how the COVID or how the situation is this outbreak is going to impact their business.
And that is when we had the conversation about how you can help bring in the element of sustainability to their businesses so that they can survive and thrive during the good times. So can you share some thoughts with us about it?
Kamal: Yes. So I think at the outset, I would like to acknowledge the fact that we are in some very difficult times so there is no question about it, people cannot take it lightly organisations, businesses cannot take it lightly because this is unprecedented.
While it is that way, I feel that this is also an opportunity to reflect and evolve as a human being and as an organisation and if you’re an entrepreneur, then all the more reasons for you since you call the shots for your organisation.
If you’re a founder or co-founder especially. So I think that’s the first thing to realise that this Yes, there is a crisis. Yes, it needs to be taken seriously. But also to say that this is not all doom and gloom.
Every crisis presents with an opportunity. And as entrepreneurs, we know that that this crisis is also an opportunity for us to reflect and transform our own businesses. So what I’m going to talk about are three things essentially, in first, I’ll be talking about why there is a need for future-proofing, especially in the post COVID world.
And then we’ll talk about how can you make sure that it happens, your business models are sustainable. And we’ll also talk about the qualities required for you to succeed as a sustainable entrepreneur whose business can try for the next 10, 20, 30 years. So those are the things that I can cover.
So at the beginning, you know, just to set the context, for those of you who know the World Economic Forum happened and that was the beginning of this year, and business leaders from around the world gathered And you know, so much time is spent in just talking about future-proofing.
And why do you think that’s the case? It is because businesses now realise that if you don’t look at the next 10, 20, 30 years keeping climate change in mind, your businesses will not thrive.
It’s as simple as that economies will not trying the government’s will come under immense pressure, either because of a pandemic like this or because of the climate crisis, which is already going on. So, as entrepreneurs, one must realise that if the world leaders, the business leaders are talking about it, what can we learn from that as someone running his or her own business.
And now if you connect that to the COVID-19 situation, this is not new for at least the scientific world or the people working in the sustainability domain. We have known this for the last couple of decades that if there is an immense loss of forest, our biodiversity, if you’re going to trade and consume wild animals, research is still out there to say that the climate crisis is not really totally different from any pandemic, they are obviously connected.
And you will see in the next coming months, more and more research will come out of it. organisations like WWF are already talking about this, since they, you know, do a lot of conservation work. So not to point fingers at any one or any country, but simply to realise that as a species, we are interconnected.
We interact with our environment, we interact with the animals with the boats with nature itself. And Mother Nature is calling us for action. Mother Nature is saying that this is an opportunity for you to reflect and think how you’re progressing with your so-called economic growth. Right? So if the world grows at 5-10% on GDP, what is it going to cost the world? So I will pause there, I mean, and just give you some space to reflect on that question that Mother Nature is calling us through this crisis to say, Are you sure this is the way you want to progress in the 21st century
RK: This is very profound. And like you said, Come on, this is the time to actually reflect upon this question and really talk about how we can evolve a mindset, you know, to be interconnected to be connected to the mother nature. And this is like a reset button, isn’t it? It’s refreshing, but that is.
RK: That nature has imposed upon us.
Kamal: Well, unfortunately, it’s going to cost us lives, in this case, human lives. But if we treat human lives as very different from loss of species and extinction of species, then I don’t think we are doing justice as the most evolved species on this planet. I mean, just because we are going to lose maybe, I don’t know, 300,000 500,000 people around the world.
And of course, it’s very serious, like I said at the outset, but let’s also take the extension of other species that seriously because we are dependent on them. We might not look at it that way.
But if for example, I’ll tell you about a sustainable business, right. So for example, if I I’m a business and I sourced agri commodities. Let’s say that I am an entrepreneur in India and I’m specialising in organic food. And I have an E=marketplace or an online, you know, web platform, I have a mobile application, people like you and me can go and order fresh fruits and vegetables and these days, I’m sure you’re struggling as all of us are struggling to buy fresh fruits and vegetables without leaving your home in this lockdown period.
So think of it as sustainable sourcing from Mother Nature, right. So if Mother Nature is providing you with fresh apples, grapes, cabbages everything that we eat on a day to day basis, and if that is done at the cost of polluting the soil, polluting the water, using pesticides that should not be used.
So this is just a small example to think that you might make some money as an entrepreneur in the short run because you will keep your cost of production low and not care about the soil health, not care about the health of the water, which is there supporting the agriculture and then you will keep selling maybe we’ll show a turnover of 1 million USD 2 million USD. But at what cost? Right? Like at some stage, you will reach a point in which the farmers was supplying to you, the supply base that you have the soil health has gone down so badly that you will not be able to source from the ground.
So isn’t it common sense to take as a sustainable entrepreneur to say that if I’m sourcing from Mother Nature, and she’s not asking you for a huge price, like, we already know, the situation of farmers in India in this case, right, like, it’s not the farmers who get the premium from organic products or sustainable products, it’s everyone, except for the farmer thinks are obviously better in the last 60 years with this current government and you know, some projects have happened.
But still there is a long way to go in India for sustainable farming to actually benefit the farmers who should be incentivized to do it.
RK: Absolutely, very, very well said Kamal. So, let’s talk about the global entrepreneurs wherein This is an outbreak that has affected every single entrepreneur in the entire world, isn’t it?
So, this is also a time that I started, you know, wondering, what could be some really good business model that we could adopt post-COVID-19. So my question to you is, how can we come up with a recession-proof business?
Kamal: Well, if I knew the answer to that question, I would have published a paper on it, but I will try to answer that. And it’s a very relevant question in today’s time, and I can share my examples.
I mean it since 2012 13 when I was previously doing the finance recruitment. I have been running multiple organisations in the last eight years. The latest is roundtable on sustainable palm oil for the last two-three years.
But let me share with you my journey as an entrepreneur for the last eight years and more recently with our SPO. When I started with the human circle in 2014, and great friends like you and others who supported me in doing that, right from the beginning, we realised that we cannot look at businesses for five years with an objective to sell it off and make money.
I’m not saying that that is wrong or right. But I did not choose to go that way. For me, it was more important to build something that lasts beyond me. That is something which will, when I’m not there in this world, which means I was already thinking at the beginning 10 20 30 years and not 1 2 3 years.
I think that is the first foundation to lay as to create a sustainable business model. Do not think of it as just a profit-making enterprise because if profit-making was the objective, you can do a lot of things right.
Like you can run a lot of for profit businesses, for which you don’t have to be an entrepreneur, you could be running your family business. For example, if you don’t have that you can join another business and get paid a high salary.
The reason people choose to be entrepreneurs is because they want to create something which is larger than themselves, right like this organisation, this cause, Which drives us.
So I think that is the first point I want to make that the foundation has to be long term and very strong. And the “Why” has to be very clear as to why you’re starting it and connecting it to sustainability again.
So if your goal was in five years, let’s maximise the profit, and not care for the environment from where I’m sourcing my products, or the workers who are not paid properly, or if there are any human violation along the supply chain, right? So while that might benefit you in five years, your consciousness will ask you the same question when you will move on to your next big thing of at what cost? Are you moving to your next startup or your next job? Because you’re guilty of it, right?
I mean, and in the Indian culture, I know how powerful the concept of karma is. And we know it works in the same lifetime. So if you’re going to damage human beings, life or nature itself, you are going to pay back at some stage.
So I don’t want to make it philosophical, but I just want to make it a point that what goes around comes around. Sustainable business model needs to keep in mind your source and your supply base.
So that supplier who is supplying to you. How is the health of his/her business? So just to take another example, right another story of a business sourcing Indian business sourcing something from China or American business, sourcing something from China.
Now, can you imagine there is research, which I have been reading and more and more will get published again.
Now, think of it this way the entire American economy, a huge chunk of it is based on Chinese manufacturing, manufacturing, that happened in China because all the factories are moved from the western part of the world to India, China, Philippines, so on so forth.
So think of it at the global level. Now. Now, if you and I in India and US, for example, are not going to keep in mind what’s happening with the organization’s in China, we are setting ourselves up for disaster.
And economists are telling us that it’s time for the world to look at the qualitative aspect of economic growth. Not just the quantitative aspect of it, like think of countries like Bhutan, for example, right? It’s a classic case, Bhutan has had a gross domestic happiness index for decades now. And the Scandinavian world came around it.
So now they have some other parameters to judge the economic growth on qualitative aspects, but just not India.
RK: Happiness of citizens, right?
Kamal: Yes, exactly. And not just of the citizen happiness of the planet, like of that country of nature of the health of the forest, for example, right? health of the animals for that matter. So, to wrap up that thought, what I was saying was that we live in a global supply chain.
Taking some farms as an example as well, like plam oil is grown in Malaysia and Indonesia. 90% of it comes from it India is the largest importer of palm oil in the world because it’s the most efficient and affordable commodity.
And what we say is that the only alternative to palm oil is sustainable palm oil because if the world moves to sunflower oil or others, it takes four to 10 times of land water resources, they finally Look at my own work, right?
Like, if I think of it as India as a country, and I’m buying from Malaysia, Indonesia, I know that there are forest fires that are happening in Indonesia, Australia, Siberia, Amazon, in Brazil, you name it right? The last 12 months, we have seen the worst forest fires.
So if you’re an entrepreneur sourcing something from China, Malaysia, Indonesia, is this common sense and forget about philosophies in this common sense for me to think that I should protect my supplies in Indonesia.
Because if we don’t protect them, or incentivize them to give me sustainable palm oil, they then have no choice probably to then go burn down the forests, or to do something totally unsustainable, in which case my business will no longer survive five years from now, because my supply base is affected, right.
So same for China same for Indonesia. So sustainable business model needs to be built, keeping in mind the entire supply chain, which means all the way to the source all the way to China all the way to Gohan Shanghai, Beijing Shenzhen, Jakarta.
Wherever you buy from wherever you sourced from, and even if your business is limited to India, or limited to the US, or limited to a European country, you must think of the source in your own country as well. Maybe you’re sourcing from a village, maybe you’re sourcing from a small entrepreneur out there.
So think of the health of the business of your suppliers as well, or your clients as well and not just your own.
RK: This is perfect. So, in essence, you’re saying that the entrepreneurship is all about creating an ecosystem, a healthy ecosystem, right?
RK: Which a lot of business owners, think about the business only in terms of profits, that they can make by you know, selling a resource at a lower I mean, buying from at a lower cost and selling at a higher price.
But when you do it, when you look at the suppliers and the real the grassroot levels wherein the real work is happening, right, it could be talented, it could be you know, raw materials, whatever it is, you actually, in essence, creating and it goes system, right?
RK: Absolutely! in the ecosystem.
RK: Yeah, the ecosystem and families dependent on it.
Kamal: Yeah, so many unemployment being generated, right? I mean, as entrepreneurs, you have the opportunity to create so many direct as well as indirect employment opportunities.
And that’s a great form that entrepreneurs do it on the wall. And we must recognise and appreciate the entrepreneurs to do it. But now let’s, let’s take this conversation in the post COVID-19 world.
Now, what do you think is going to happen? Now, let’s say the world comes back to some normal behaviour in two months, three months or six months, at some stage, we will recover from this right? I mean, that is what the most likelihood is.
So in the post COVID world, if you’re looking at running your business and not caring about your talent, your employees, your suppliers, then you’re doing a disservice not just to yourself and your business but also as a responsible global citizen.
Because what you’re essentially saying is that yeah, that pandemic happen. We are over it now and let’s go business as usual. That will be one of the biggest mistakes. If anyone thinks that there will be business as usual after this, there will be no business as usual because the whole world will shift to a new realisation that the healthy ecosystem needs to be created. It’s, it’s like you don’t have a choice about it.
And I think my sense is that even the governments are going to incentivize that behaviour. My sense is that governments across the world are going to ask businesses and entrepreneurs to actually look at their policies.
If it was for me to promote, I would make it mandatory for every business to have a sustainable sourcing policy. Because without a sustainable sourcing policy, you cannot hold businesses accountable for it. Because I could be a business in India, China, US, Europe anywhere and I if I don’t even have a sustainable sourcing policy, what is my parameter to judge whether I’m sourcing responsibly or I’m sourcing irresponsibly?
RK: Kamal, if we as a species cannot Learn from this, this outbreak and this incident, then there must be no bigger fools than us, isn’t it?
Kamal: Well, we will pay a price for it, we will pay a huge price for it. Some people will pay that price within their own families, some people will pay in the neighbourhood in the city in the country, but there is going to be a huge chain reaction.
If you don’t learn from this because there is nothing to say that starts happened in 2004 or ’03 there was a tsunami around the same time, if you remember. It’s within 15 years and in between there was an Ebola, right? So it’s not coming from nowhere.
It’s showing you a trend that is every five years every five to 10 years. Something is structurally wrong with the global economy right now. Because of which these epidemics are coming up.
It’s not coming from a vacuum. It’s coming from human behaviour and business behaviour, which is not sustainable. Come on. This reminds me of the conversations that we used to have years ago, if you don’t learn the lesson that life has taught you, then the life is not going to stop until you learn that lesson.
Absolutely, it’s ancient wisdom across cultures life will keep giving you the same lesson till it is convinced that you have got the lesson. So, if you did not learn from COVID-19 be prepared for other another one coming in the next five to 10 years or even faster than that.
RK: So, what are the qualities required for a successful sustainable entrepreneur?
Kamal: Very good question. And again, I can relate it to the behaviour I have seen within my friends who are doing it quite well. And things that I have tried so I think one of the biggest qualities for a successful sustainable entrepreneur is resilience.
And I say resilience especially in the current situation, because if you are not resilient as a founder or co-founder Or even as a young working professional, if you’re on the founding team of a startup, for example, you are a part of a team, which is taking up a mandate, which is very challenging already, right?
Because you have left your job or you finished your studies and straightaway decided to take up entrepreneurship. In both cases, your resilience has to be very high, your persistence has to be very high.
Because if you’re not resilient, and you’re not persistent, you’re in the wrong job. I’m sorry to say that. Because if you want to be a successful entrepreneur, you must be resilient, you must be prepared to see the highs and lows.
Some people will experience that in the share market. And they have that those guts to do it. The rest of the people do that to the entrepreneurship. All right.
So if you don’t have the capacity to go through this month after month, quarter after quarter, year after year, your employees might leave you you might employees might love you.
You still have to make the tough decisions because you’re the boss, right? So I think the first quality is resilience the second And I would say is resourcefulness more than ever before.
And as an Indian, I can say that we have learned this over from ancestors from thousands of years that resourcefulness and respect of nature is the key to success.
We have known this, I think it’s just the last few centuries this whole, you know, the global economy, which has done its own wonders.
The price I feel we have paid is that we have become a bit careless with our consumption. I think lifestyles across the world are not sustainable. We already see obesity is you know, health issues across, right.
That comes from the fact that we are in an abundance state. A lot of us in at least in middle-class, upper-middle-class families, we have more than what we need in many cases.
And I think that we need to again, use this time to reflect and see how as an entrepreneur, you can be more resourceful. So let’s say that you were traveling to 10 conferences in 12 months, and I’m I was doing the same so I was taking flights every, you know, a couple of weeks to go for a conference to go for a meeting, I was in different countries.
And now I’m able to do more and more of that work virtually. So if you are resourceful not only are you contributing to the planet by reducing your flights and greenhouse gas emissions, but you also cut your cost, right? Like how much does it cost to do a meeting online? Like you know, this conversation yesterday I was having another one every day, I have at least one or two video calls for which I would have otherwise traveled to another country or another city.
So I think resourcefulness is the second quality, which also brings you business benefits as obvious right? The third one is I mean, I have a debate between two of them, but I would still stick to this constant learning.
The learning in this period, when you have more time and you have more free let’s say because you’re not stuck in traffic. You’re not waiting at the airport for two, three hours.
Use that time to upgrade yourself and become familiar with how the global ecosystem is operating and working. So these are the three, three top qualities that I feel that people need to keep in mind.
So being resourceful is really really important. maximising all your resources, making sure that you’re constantly learning and upgrading whether you read a book, you hear a podcast, you see a video, anything else that you do.
So if these qualities are kept in mind, I think you will create a sustainable business model.
RK: Excellent, excellent. How to adopt a sustainable lifestyle for an entrepreneur?
Kamal: Walk the talk, especially if you are promoting organic food and in your own kitchen, you don’t have organic food, right? Like, I mean, it’s like, it doesn’t make any sense.
So, I mean, it might sound a bit philosophical, but the truth is that if you’re preaching something to the world, like a behaviour, let’s say that you’re telling the world don’t use single-use plastic.
Like I was doing that So I can relate to my own lifestyle, right. So when we started telling people to not use single-use plastic last year, we looked at our own home and we saw, every single room has single use or some kind of plastic in it, if not single-use.
So how can we minimise that? So, practice what you preach as an entrepreneur because if you have all the more responsibilities to do that, either your product or your service is saying something and you’re not saying it. So whether it’s organic folded, whether it’s single-use plastic, whether it’s saying, yes, you should pay well to your workers and labourers.
Ask yourself, how much are you paying to the maid who comes to your house, the person who cleans your car, the person who cleans your items, your clothes?
We live in these times in which there we are fortunate to have other people to do such work for you. In many parts of the world, people don’t have that luxury, right?
So you have to clean your own car. You have to iron your own clothes. You have to clean your own toilets and your own house.
I think in some cultures, especially in the Asian culture, we have that law that we have, you know, a group of people are willing to do it.
So, practice what you preach. So if you or your business products or services are basically promoting an idea or a cause, please make sure that you look at your own house, your own lifestyle to say, how many flights Am I taking when I’m criticising someone else for causing greenhouse gas emission? I’m blaming an industry for causing fossil fuel related pollution.
For example, right? Look at your own car. What kind of car do you use? How many times do you use a shared carpooling for example? So I think these are few examples, but it’s mostly to self reflect and walk the talk.
So get yourself aligned in terms of what you are saying, what you’re thinking and how you’re being deep within
RK: Absolutely. it’s Be the change, isn’t it?
Kamal: Absolutely. I mean, without being the change in the post COVID world, fingers will be raised, make no mistakes, fingers will be raised whether from one country to another from one business industry to another, that will happen.
So we are looking at a world now moving forward that people are going to start holding others accountable as to who caused it. Why was it so bad? Why was this lockdown not done before? But the fact is, no one really has the right or wrong answers like there is no formula to say you start the lockdown today and you finish the lockdown tomorrow.
There is no formula to say that you close the airports today and you open the airports tomorrow. So there will be chaos. So be prepared for chaos.
But the ones who succeed in chaos are the people who are resilient because we are used to this curve which goes up and down. Because we can then take a step back and see the curve.
See that the next six months are going to be full of chaos. Therefore my house needs to be in order. Because if my business is not an order Then I make myself more vulnerable for others to point fingers at me or my business.
So, I mean, that’s what I would say and as human circle as RSPO. That’s what we are trying to do in our organisations. And it’s an opportunity for all entrepreneurs out there to make sure to use this time to put your business in order.
If you don’t have a policy, please make sure you write a policy for sustainable sourcing, you write a policy for healthy employees management, or if you don’t have HR policy, please make sure you write HR policy so that you take care of the health of employees like maybe you’re not giving health insurance benefits to your employees.
So think of it those ways, right? Because at the end of the day, if people start leaving your organisation who’s going to pay the maximum price, we know how difficult it is to hire high quality talent anywhere in the world, right.
So if employees feel that they are not taken care of by the employers by you, then you just make them and yourself more vulnerable. They will have no choice but to leave you because they will think you don’t take care of them in the difficult times.
So, in the post COVID world, we are going to see a lot of chaos. So I think it will be wise to make sure that your house is in order.
RK: Absolutely. So the world is not going to be the same, you know, in terms of mindset that we all share in a post covert world, isn’t it?
So, this brings me to one more additional question that I wanted to ask you. Which books do you highly recommend for entrepreneurs to read? So which entrepreneurial books has had the maximum impact on you the recent time.
Kamal: The one author that I have been focusing on for the last one year is Yuval Noah Harari, and the latest book that I read was 21 lessons for the 21st century, something like that.
I think we are fortunate to have someone like him, who is not just an author. He’s like, you know, a future talk. He prophesizes he looks at the next 10 20 30 even 100 200 years.
So he’s someone that I would definitely urge you. If you don’t have the time to read his book, at least see his video, see his interviews on YouTube.
It’s freely available. Because he is making you think, the whole century at least, right and you and I are going to see a major part of the century and he talks about it in a very scientific yet grounded way, he puts context to everything that he says.
RK: Excellent. So I’m going to leave the links, the show notes and the checklists from this conversation so that our viewers and listeners can benefit from taking real action based on and I also trust that not everybody who started listening to this podcast or watching this interview has completed it.
So they have benefit Also, I’m going to leave a worksheet, a one page worksheet that outlines every actionable step that we have covered in this podcast and this interview. So with that said, Do you want to, you know, tell our listeners how to how we can find you in any finishing thoughts.
Kamal: The easiest way would be to Google my name. I am very active on social media on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, as well. So I will be happy to connect with you there. I have, ofcourse LinkedIn as well.
So you can send me a LinkedIn request, you can just search with my full name and you will easily find me on all the social media channels.
RK: Yes. And the full name is Kamal Prakash Seth. And yes, it will be a link to his LinkedIn and social media accounts, as show note on this episode. Great. So any any thoughts before we wind up this? This podcast.
Kamal: No, I think I just want to thank you for creating this opportunity for us to have this conversation. I think it was well timed, I was looking to create more such content. Since I have more time, you know, no physical meetings, no flights.
So it’s great that we did it. And my ask for the viewers or the listener says, basically, please use this time to reflect for yourself, for your family, for your business.
It’s an opportunity look at this crisis and opportunity and don’t pay attention to news so much because it can really paralyse you. And a lot of it is fake news. So be very, very careful with the source of your information consumption. And I already see a lot of people suffering from mental health issues.
Either they’re not used to working from home or they’re not used to so much chaos and disruption. So please pay attention to your mental health as well and one of the easiest way to do it is to just be this use a strong filter on where you receive your news from you’re receiving it on WhatsApp, are you going to the WHO’s website to find out the right information about things?
So yeah, reflect, learn, upgrade yourself, Be the change you want to see in the world, because in the post COVID world, it will, it is going to be a reset. So be ready for a reset, but put your house in order before you know it gets worse.
RK: Great. That’s amazing insights that you shared with us on this episode. Thank you so much Kamal. And this This episode was definitely coming for a very long time, you know, and I’m glad that this has been very timely.
And the messages that you shared with us is going to impact the entrepreneurs in so many different levels, you know, not just in the business level, but even in the lifestyle and the way that they think the way they perceive things, the way they treat the people around them and the way they treat their business as an ecosystem, not just a profit building machine.
So it’s high time that we started adopting these mindset and it’s very time That you’ve come come up with such great insights. Thank you so much Kamal.
Kamal: Thank you RK. And it is a pleasure and I hope that we can do this more often if it adds value to the audience.
RK: Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you and bye. Goodbye.
Kamal: Thank you. Bye